It is quite quiet in Ottawa and that just reinforces my belief that Bangkok is a more fun place to live. Thavorn seems happy and and Jaidan is changing daily. We communicate via video chat using LINE, an app preferred by Asian over WhatsApp. I was reading Stickman's weekly and came across a follow up interview he did with 4 Thai working girls. It is a fascinating glimpse into their lives and thought processes so I will include it here.
In previous chit chats we have talked about how you each got in to the business in the first place and what it's like working as an escort. I guess I expected most of you would be out of the industry by now but you're all still working! What's the story? You can't do this sort of work your entire life, can you!
Maria: I think maybe it will be another 2 more years for me. I still don't have enough money to stop working and when I stop I don't want to work again.
Bonnie: I have a dream for my future and that is why I continue working. My dream is to be the master of my own destiny. I don't want other people to choose how my life will be and the only way for me to control my own life is to have enough money. Money doesn't make us happy, but it gives us choices.
Maria: It's all about the money - the more money, the better your life.
Bonnie: I want to make sure the quality of my life is very good. I also have to take care of my family. I want to be sure that I have enough money for my life and their life to be better.
So you want out, but you stay because you need more money?
Sophia: I want to have enough money for my family and me.
So that begs the obvious question: What is your number?
<Blank looks all around, no one is quite sure, almost as if no one has actually thought it that far through.>
I mean how much money do you need?
<Still a little reluctant to answer>
OK, let me tell you my number. For me, I need $2 million, or in your money, about 50 million baht. To buy a decent house in my country, furnish it and have a couple of cars is about $1,000,000. And I would like another million on top of that to invest and generate an income. Anything less than that amount and I would not be confident that I have enough money to stop working. I figure with a house and another $1million+ I can earn enough from investments to live comfortably, travel and still have enough to buy a few toys. More would be better and it's really not a lot of money these days, but $NZD 2 million is the minimum for me. So, would 50 million baht be enough for you?
<Laughs all around as if what I have said is the most profound thing anyone has ever said to them!>
Maria: 2 million baht.
Is that really enough? It really doesn't sound like a big number to me.
Maria: Yeah, it's enough, I think.
You think? Think is not good enough, you need to be sure!
Bonnie: 5 million baht is enough. Cash. I am building a house already. A house and 5 million baht will be enough.
Sophia: 5 million baht too. I have a car to pay off. I need to pay off my car first and save more.
Cherry: 5 or 6 million baht. I want to buy a big piece of land, which will cost 3 million baht. It will be large, many rai. When I have that I can have a farm and run my own business from the farm and make money.
Julie: 3 million baht. Before I thought 1 million was enough but now I know it's not enough.
Bonnie: Everything is getting expensive now....even just bla-too, you know a small piece of fish costs much more than before.
Julie: Sometimes we have a big dream and we have to revise it with a smaller dream but I think 3 million baht will be enough.
<I find myself multi-tasking, asking questions + scribbling answers while also doing the maths in my mind to estimate the number of customers the girls have had to save this amount of money. Most escort agencies in Bangkok split the fee 50 : 50 with the girls. So, from a 2-hour liaison @ 5,000 baht the girl gets 2,500 baht. 5 million baht divided by 2,500 baht is 2,000 = meaning 2,000 customers - and that's just to save 5 million baht. I decide to keep this thought to myself.>
So when you have reached the point that you have saved enough money, what will you do with it?
Maria: Put it in the bank and buy gold.
Julie: Buy my land.
Sophia: Put it in the bank and earn interest and just use the interest to live on.
Cherry: Once we have enough money, for me it's 5 million baht, we can run a business. I will go back home and work on my farm. I will grow fruit and vegetables and sell them in the market. We can grow food for ourselves and sell the excess at the market. If we're lucky we might be able to export some to other countries and sell it at a higher price.
Alice: If I have enough money I will move home, buy land and start a business too.
So when you have made enough money to stop working you're going to go home?
Everyone: <A very resounding> YES!
So does that mean you don't really like Bangkok and that you're only here for money?
Sophia: We are only here to make money. That is the only reason to be in Bangkok!
No one is here for the fun or excitement of a big city?
Everyone: NO!
So ultimately you don't really like it here?
<I am looked at as if this is another incredibly stupid question.>
Julie: I want to go back to home and be with my family, stay with them and be close to nature.
Maria: If I am with my family in the countryside, even if I just sit and gaze at a canal all day long I'm happy. Being home with family beats living in this city any time. I don't care what I do when I am at home, I am happy there.
So tell me about your dreams, the dreams you had when you started this work and the dreams you have now. Have your dreams changed? No one has said they want to settle down with a foreign guy / customer which I find a little surprising.
Bonnie: It's very hard to find a good guy in this business. It's hard to find a rich guy for marriage, or even just find a good guy who isn't rich. It's better to buy a lottery ticket. There's a better chance of getting lucky that way.
Maria: If we meet someone, that would be good. But if we don't, hey, no problem.
Sophia, I know you better than the other girls here. You used to work in the UK, for a number of years as I seem to recall. You've been back working in Thailand a good few years now. You must have met some good guys over the years, surely?
Sophia: How many years have I worked? Oh, I don't remember but it's a long, long time. If I was going to meet a guy and he was going to marry me, it would have happened already. It isn't going to happen.
Cherry: I have been with so many handsome men. I have taken care of many smart guys, high-class guys, rich guys. Many of these guys were very desirable to be a husband. I have met so many guys already, so many who would make a good husband, but it wasn't to be.
Why is that? Are you all super fussy? Are you waiting for that one guy who is both super rich and super handsome?
Julie: That's not the problem. Most guys we meet are not single. Most have a wife and family in their country.
Sophia: We're not lucky to meet a guy for life in this business. It's only for a short time, only to make money.
Alice: For me it doesn't matter. It's only about money and was never about anything else. I never had a dream to meet a foreign guy to marry. Honestly, I never ever thought I would meet a guy for a relationship in this business.
That's very different to how things used to be. <I tell them briefly about the history of this website, my time in Thailand and how for many years Western guys visiting Thailand got involved with working ladies, relationships flourished, they got married, kids came along and some lived happily ever after. They seem genuinely surprised.> So do you see foreign guys only as a source of money?
<She'd been tapping away on her mobile, seemingly in a world of her own, but obviously she was tuned in to what was being said because before anyone has a chance to answer the manager interjects quick fast and stops the girls before they answer, with the Thai equivalent for the English "inappropriate" used.>
Bonnie: So many guys we take care of say they love us. I have heard those words so many times! I have to try so hard to feign happiness as if I believe them, but it's hard when you have heard it from so many guys and know it's not true! How can they love us after a few days when they hardly even know us?
Julie: We can only hope for so long that Mr. Right is going to come along and when he doesn't, we must face reality. Eventually we lose any hope at all that this business will be about anything more than making money.
Bonnie: Since I have worked as an escort, I have learned many things and seen things I would not otherwise have seen. A lot of people tell me what I have to do – do this, do that....but I do what I want to do. One thing I know it is very hard to make people like me and love me.
So has your idea of Western men changed? What were your general thoughts about white guys before you started and how have they changed?
Maria: Farang are more polite than I thought they would be.
Julie: Before I was scared of foreign guys, but now I am not scared at all
Bonnie: African guys really are big and some are scary.
Maria: Some guys don't let us sleep!
What?
Maria: Some guys want to have sex all night and never stop.
Bonnie: They want to use all the time they have paid for, the entire night, kind of like they have paid for “full option!”
Alice: Some guys think they can do anything they want to us because they paid money for us.
Cherry: But when they're good, they are really good.
Maria: Some guys are so good. Like the customer I had last night. They make us really happy.
Sophia: When I meet good guys I am happy to keep working but when I meet bad guys it puts me off and makes me think about leaving once and for all.
So it means your work is changeable depending on the customer and never the same?
Maria: Yes, it is like an up and down graph. <She waves her finger up and down, as if drawing a graph.>
Bonnie: Up and down, up and down, that's our life!
For me, Thailand feels like it is changing fast. Some older expats are leaving while younger guys are coming in even greater numbers. Have you seen any changes in this business or is it business as usual?
Bonnie: I think more expats come here for work. I see more farangs here and many live here.
Julie: I think customers have changed and they spend less money. Before my customers liked to go out and take me to really nice places, expensive hotel bars and restaurants, but now most stay in the room and play with their laptop when they're not playing with me. Bangkok is expensive and a lot of people just play online because they don't have money to do things. Just eating basic food is much more expensive than it used to be.
Sophia: Many farang live here now, more than ever before. I think a lot them are poor. They always complain about money.
So do you still get the same number of bookings as in the past?
<The manager interjects and pointedly says that there are still a lot of bookings but the girls take more time off these days and any drop in bookings is due to the girls' availability - or lack of it - more than anything else. She doesn't say it explicitly, but I get the feeling she is not impressed that these particular girls, all of whom have been with the agency for some time, some for approaching 5 years, are not as hard-working as they used to be.>
Sophia: Before we got a lot of long bookings, like overnight or multi-day, but now it's mainly short bookings. We used to get overnight regularly, but now most bookings are just 2 hours.
You make A LOT of money in this business. Is the money so good that it's hard to walk away from?
Sophia: 9,000 baht is what a lot of people get paid for one month. We can make that in one day. Even if we earned 30,000 baht a month which is a high salary, that would be a huge drop in income for us. Just my personal expenses can be more than 30,000 baht a month.
Cherry: We're getting older every day so we have to make money while we can. We cannot make this sort of money doing anything else.
You make good money – what do you do with it? Do you save it?
Sophia: I send a lot of money home. I am always buying this and that. It depends on our family. Every family is different.
Julie: There are four areas of expenses each month. First there is rent. We all have to pay rent. Next are the things we buy for ourselves. Then there is the money we send to our family. Finally, there is the money we save.
<Everyone nods in agreement.>
Cherry: My number one priority is sending money home. I try to save. That's about it. I don't have a lot of expenses so I can save a lot.
Bonnie: I send some to my family and the rest is for me.
Has anyone bought a home?
Everyone: <Yes, everyone is either building or has already built / bought a house.>
Sophia: Buying a house is the biggest expense in life. What do you say in English? Easy come, easy go? That's what happens with the money we make. We have to be sensible and buy things that are important like a house and a car.
Julie: We need to save a lot of money for any medical care or hospital expenses too.
Sophia: With assets like a house, land or car, if we need money in the future we can sell these things. When we stop we might not be making money so we need to be careful to plan now.
I know you make very good money already and probably earn more than most of my readers, but have you considered working abroad where the money is even better? Singapore, for example? A lot of Thai women are on the Bangkok / Singapore circuit and I understand they make several hundred dollars a day.
Sophia: There are many young ladies there and we are not young. And in Singapore they like white-skinned girls so we cannot compete with them.
But there are lots of expats in Singapore and they will go for your look.
Julie: It's easier here. We know how everything works. Everything is easy here. This is our home, our country, There are no problems working here. If we have a problem with a customer here, we can easily sort it out. In Singapore or in another country if we have problems with a customer it can become a big problem and it's not easy for us. We should not be doing this work there and that would always in the back of my mind.
Maria: I love Thailand and I want to stay here.
Bonnie: We cannot get som tam there or other places!
Cherry: I hear it's not easy to go to Singapore for us any more. It's risky these days.
Looking good is a big part of what you do. What sort of effort do you make to look good?
Bonnie: I spend a lot of money on the way I look. Filler, vitamins, Botox once a year. Supplements are important too. I try to be healthy.
So there's no alcohol? No drinking?
Cherry: Haha! We drink a lot but we try to eat well too. It's important to eat nutritious food.
Maria: We need to get enough sleep. That is really important, but it's not easy in this line of work.
I've got my opinion on this, but why do you think so many Thai women work in the sex industry? Is making money from your body natural for Thai women? OK, perhaps that's not such a nice way to put it. Let me try to put it a more palatable way....do you have fewer hang-ups about sex for money than other cultures may have?
Maria: Working like this is the easiest way to make a lot of money fast. We do it for the money. We don't think about it too much. The money is for our family.
Cherry: Many Thai ladies take the responsibility of taking care of their family seriously. To do that you need money, sometimes a lot of money, and this is the best and easiest way for us to make a lot of money.
Bonnie: It's Thai culture. We cannot leave the family behind or abandon them. Never. It's the last thing we can ever do.
<Everyone is nodding in agreement.>
Tell me honestly, do think this business has changed you?
Bonnie: I feel it has made me grow up. I have seen more than I ever would have seen had I not done this. It has forced me to grow up. I think I have learned a lot and it has made me consider different ideas and look at things from a different perspective. When we're young we just want to have fun but when we do this work we feel like we have grown up in our mind. We feel that we have a duty to our family and honestly, I feel I have fulfilled that duty and I feel a great sense of pride in that.
Sophia: It has made me stronger through all of the experiences I have had.
Cherry: If I worked in a factory I would have a small salary. Working here I have made good money and I have been able to provide for my family and that has made everyone at home happy. Whatever they want, I can give it to them. If they want good food, I can provide it. I don't know if you know how important that is to us. Do you send money to your family?
Umm, err, no, I don't. It's not part of my culture. But then my parents have enough so it's not like they need my help. They just prefer that I live close by. That's more important to them than money.
<Everyone nods.>
Bonnie: I have learned a lot about time and how important the concept of time is to foreigners. I have learned to rush and do things fast. Time is important. It's not like that here. One day I will not be as beautiful as I am today and my looks will have gone, so I must work fast now to make money while I can.
Maria: The most important thing is that my family's life is so much better because of what I have done. I bought a house for my mother. I send money to her every month without fail. So what happens to me doesn't matter.
Julie: Same as my friends. It's all about family.
Alice: Same same. More money is better for my family. It's as simple as that. What good can working in a factory do? Overtime? An extra 50 baht? That won't help much!
Julie: Even if you work in a good job and you get overtime you just cannot earn the sort of money we have been able to. It's a no-brainer.
I tell my readers that older ladies are better. Am I right? Why should my readers choose you, and not an 18-year-old gogo dancer?
Sophia: Service levels are not the same <said with a sexy grin>. Service is very important!
Alice: We are higher class.
Cherry: Honestly, I am confident that we are better at what we do. I truly believe that.
Maria: There is the safety issue. We come from an agency and if there is anything that you're not happy with you can contact the agency.
Bonnie: Do you really think a young girl is better in bed than us?! <She grabs my arm and starts stroking it and stares directly at me, holding eye contact. Everyone bursts out laughing!>
OK, so what about your sexual health?
Bonnie: I have had some customers who are quite vigorous during sex and I always go back to see the same doctor. Now he always says the same, "Oh, it's you again, is it the same problem as last time?!" The doctor has told me that this work is not good for me even if I use a condom all the time. I think my pussy needs to take a holiday because she works so hard!
<It's a question that ultimately the other girls don't want to answer and the interview peters out as the girls lose interest and start chattering amongst themselves, answering that very question in hushed tones, all rather cagey and nervous that I will transcribe their conversation. I tell them that we're done, they seem relieved as general chit chat follows.>
A couple of the girls show me photos of themselves and their family up country. It looks like it's a million miles from Bangkok. In those photos the girls are not dollied up, they have minimal makeup and in one shot Bonnie is wearing a straw hat and looks nothing like she does now. It's not just another province, it looks like another world. It's hard to believe that these elegantly dressed ladies come from a world so different to the upmarket shopping mall we're sitting in.
But then, I wonder to myself, are these girls really all that different to me? I came to Bangkok, did my thing, made some money – in the very same industry as these girls - and then returned to where I had come from for much the same reasons as these girls – I wanted to be close to family and a natural environment, well away from the stresses and strains of Bangkok. Maybe we're all not as different as we like to think we are?
The Stickman weekly has been running for years and is an interesting historical perspective into life in Thailand for Farangs over those years.
https://www.stickmanweekly.com/
TTYL
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